[Rivet] ATLAS_2014_I1306294 and comparison to data points

Gavin Hesketh gavin.hesketh at ucl.ac.uk
Mon Apr 13 15:19:14 BST 2015
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Sorry, wearing two hats here... we (the analysers) divided the data by 2 
in the paper. The results in the rivet routine already have this taken 
into account. So with the rivet routine you can do a direct comparison 
to either Z->ee or Z->mumu MC.
cheers,
Gavin

On 13/04/15 15:15, Hannes Jung wrote:
> Hm, now I am confused....
> I thought you just said, I have to divide the data by 2 to get agreement
> with the MC, or did I misunderstand ?
>
> Cheers
> Hannes
>
>> On 13.04.2015, at 16:11, Gavin Hesketh <gavin.hesketh at ucl.ac.uk
>> <mailto:gavin.hesketh at ucl.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Hannes,
>> hm, I haven't seen this effect in the rivet plugin, I get good
>> agreement between data and MC... Though I've only used the test
>> version in Rivet 2.2.0.
>>
>> What MC are you running? Can you point me to some example plots?
>> cheers,
>> Gavin
>>
>> On 13/04/15 15:05, Hannes Jung wrote:
>>> Hi Gavin
>>>
>>> thanks for clarification.
>>> But then I guess it should be also corrected in the Rivet plugin,
>>> as it is confusing when the data and MC predictions are different
>>> by a factor of 2....
>>> Cheers
>>> Hannes
>>>
>>>> On 13.04.2015, at 15:47, Gavin Hesketh <gavin.hesketh at ucl.ac.uk
>>>> <mailto:gavin.hesketh at ucl.ac.uk>
>>>> <mailto:gavin.hesketh at ucl.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Hannes,
>>>> in the data analysis we did combine the electron and muon channels. We
>>>> unfold to a fiducial volume where the electron and muon channels are
>>>> identical, so then just divide the data result by 2 to get a
>>>> per-lepton-channel cross section.
>>>> In other words, you can compare either a Z->ee only run, or a Z->mumu
>>>> only run to the data.
>>>> cheers,
>>>> Gavin
>>>>
>>>> On 13/04/15 05:42, Hannes Jung wrote:
>>>>> Dear Christian
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks a lot for your reply.
>>>>> Yes, but the data are the sum of electron and muon channel, as far as I
>>>>> can conclude
>>>>> from the paper, since it is written:
>>>>> "Since the electron and muon Z boson decay channels are combined to
>>>>> increase
>>>>> the precision of the signal fits to data.... "
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> Hannes
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12.04.2015, at 20:58, Christian Gütschow <chris.g at cern.ch
>>>>>> <mailto:chris.g at cern.ch>
>>>>>> <mailto:chris.g at cern.ch>
>>>>>> <mailto:chris.g at cern.ch>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Hannes,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> unfolded data has only been provided for the combined lepton channels,
>>>>>> which is why the data points are the same for all three plugins. The
>>>>>> default plugin will look for Z candidates in the electron channel. The
>>>>>> two other plugins are just there for convenience, i.e. to allow users
>>>>>> to specify the decay channel they want to look at.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the data, the two lepton channels were found to be consistent with
>>>>>> each other, so it's okay to compare their combination (i.e. the
>>>>>> weighted average) to the individual lepton channels in MC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12 April 2015 at 19:18, Hannes Jung <hannes.jung at desy.de
>>>>>> <mailto:hannes.jung at desy.de>
>>>>>> <mailto:hannes.jung at desy.de>
>>>>>> <mailto:hannes.jung at desy.de>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Hi Andy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   thanks for your fsat reply.
>>>>>>   Yes, the versions for muon, electron are available, and
>>>>>>   one without specification, but it is the muon one...
>>>>>>   the data points are all the same.... the combined ones, I guess.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Thanks again
>>>>>>   Cheers
>>>>>>   hannes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   > On 12.04.2015, at 19:46, Andy Buckley <andy.buckley at cern.ch
>>>>>> <mailto:andy.buckley at cern.ch>
>>>>>> <mailto:andy.buckley at cern.ch> <mailto:andy.buckley at cern.ch>> wrote:
>>>>>>   >
>>>>>>   > On 12/04/15 17:07, Hannes Jung wrote:
>>>>>>   >> Dear Rivet experts
>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>   >> I was wondering, how the comparison of ATLAS_2014_I1306294
>>>>>>   >> to the data points from the measurements should be interpreted:
>>>>>>   >> it seems the rivet plugin either works for the electron OR muon
>>>>>>   >> channel, while the data points are the sum of both.
>>>>>>   >>
>>>>>>   >> Is it correct, that one cannot directly compare the result
>>>>>> from the
>>>>>>   >> Rivet plugin with the data ?
>>>>>>   >
>>>>>>   > Hi Hannes, I think Gavin Hesketh (identified as the author of this
>>>>>>   > plugin at
>>>>>> e.g.https://rivet.hepforge.org/analyses#ATLAS_2014_I1306294)
>>>>>>   > is on the Rivet list, but I've CC'd him explicitly. Typically
>>>>>> analysis
>>>>>>   > authors will know more details than the Rivet authors do... but
>>>>>> I hope
>>>>>>   > that the analyses *have* all been written so that MC tuns can be
>>>>>>   > compared directly to the data... that's the point!
>>>>>>   >
>>>>>>   >> Why are the electron and muon channels done in separate plugins,
>>>>>>   >> and not added as was done in the data ?
>>>>>>   >
>>>>>>   > To me it looks like all versions are available... no?
>>>>>>   >
>>>>>>   >> PS: I am running Rivet 2.2.1
>>>>>>   >
>>>>>>   > Hurrah! ;-)
>>>>>>   >
>>>>>>   > Andy
>>>>>>   >
>>>>>>   > --
>>>>>>   > Dr Andy Buckley, Lecturer / Royal Society University Research
>>>>>> Fellow
>>>>>>   > Particle Physics Expt Group, University of Glasgow
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   ***********************************************************************
>>>>>>   Hannes Jung
>>>>>>   Email: Hannes.Jung at desy.de <mailto:Hannes.Jung at desy.de>
>>>>>> <mailto:Hannes.Jung at desy.de>
>>>>>> <mailto:Hannes.Jung at desy.de>
>>>>>>   mobile :+49 40 8998 93741 <tel:%2B49%2040%208998%2093741>
>>>>>> http://www.desy.de/~jung
>>>>>>   Tel: +49 (0) 40 8998 3741 <tel:%2B49%20%280%29%2040%208998%203741>
>>>>>>   Fax: +49 (0) 40 8994 3741 <tel:%2B49%20%280%29%2040%208994%203741>
>>>>>>   DESY, CMS 01B/02.213
>>>>>>   Notkestr.85, 22603 Hamburg, FRG
>>>>>>   ***********************************************************************
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   _______________________________________________
>>>>>>   Rivet mailing list
>>>>>> Rivet at projects.hepforge.org <mailto:Rivet at projects.hepforge.org>
>>>>>> <mailto:Rivet at projects.hepforge.org>
>>>>>> https://www.hepforge.org/lists/listinfo/rivet
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dr. Christian Gütschow
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TU Dresden
>>>>>> Institut für Kern- und Teilchenphysik
>>>>>> Zellescher Weg 19
>>>>>> 01069 Dresden
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > E17, Andreas-Schubert-Bau
>>>>>> > chris.g at cern.ch <mailto:chris.g at cern.ch> <mailto:chris.g at cern.ch>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ***********************************************************************
>>>>> Hannes Jung
>>>>> Email: Hannes.Jung at desy.de <mailto:Hannes.Jung at desy.de>
>>>>> <mailto:Hannes.Jung at desy.de>
>>>>> <mailto:Hannes.Jung at desy.de>
>>>>> mobile :+49 40 8998 93741
>>>>> http://www.desy.de/~jung
>>>>> Tel: +49 (0) 40 8998 3741
>>>>> Fax: +49 (0) 40 8994 3741
>>>>> DESY, CMS 01B/02.213
>>>>> Notkestr.85, 22603 Hamburg, FRG
>>>>> ***********************************************************************
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Rivet mailing list
>>>>> Rivet at projects.hepforge.org
>>>>> https://www.hepforge.org/lists/listinfo/rivet
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Rivet mailing list
>>>> Rivet at projects.hepforge.org <mailto:Rivet at projects.hepforge.org>
>>>> <mailto:Rivet at projects.hepforge.org>
>>>> https://www.hepforge.org/lists/listinfo/rivet
>>>
>>> ***********************************************************************
>>> Hannes Jung
>>> Email: Hannes.Jung at desy.de <mailto:Hannes.Jung at desy.de>
>>> <mailto:Hannes.Jung at desy.de>
>>> mobile :+49 40 8998 93741
>>> http://www.desy.de/~jung
>>> Tel: +49 (0) 40 8998 3741
>>> Fax: +49 (0) 40 8994 3741
>>> DESY, CMS 01B/02.213
>>> Notkestr.85, 22603 Hamburg, FRG
>>> ***********************************************************************
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
> ***********************************************************************
> Hannes Jung
> Email: Hannes.Jung at desy.de <mailto:Hannes.Jung at desy.de>
> mobile :+49 40 8998 93741
> http://www.desy.de/~jung
> Tel: +49 (0) 40 8998 3741
> Fax: +49 (0) 40 8994 3741
> DESY, CMS 01B/02.213
> Notkestr.85, 22603 Hamburg, FRG
> ***********************************************************************
>
>
>
>
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