<html> <head> <meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Hello everybody, I would like to give you the current status of my work on Rivet for the use in heavy-ion physics. The basic requirements as discussed previously are: 1) It should be possible to read YODA files and to process them either standalone or in addition to an MC+Rivet run. 2) There has to be a possibility for a further processing of analysis objects after they are finalized. According to the discussion I have chosen approach #3 (see email from 10.08.2016) and implemented these requirements into the Rivet 2.5.1 source code which can be found on <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://gitlab.cern.ch/bvolkel/rivet-for-heavy-ion/tree/master">https://gitlab.cern.ch/bvolkel/rivet-for-heavy-ion/tree/master</a>. The additional capabilities are briefly described in the following: AnalysisHandler::readData( const std::string& filename ) This method stores pointers to the read objects in a member AnalysisHandler::_readObjects handler if and only if the YODA objects have more than 0 entries. It can be called as often as required. Because of that there should be a sufficient and reasonable handling for objects with coinciding paths. So far, older ones are just replaced by new ones. It could be possible to think about a proper merging based on the steps in the finalize() method of a given analysis. Analysis::replaceByData( std::map< std::string, AnalysisObjectPtr > ) Whenever a path of an object booked in Analysis::init() matches the path of another one found in the map the content of the booked pointer is replaced by the content of the read object. Analysis::post() This method can be called further modifications of finalized YODA objects. No modifications are applied to those objects which are used to compute others and hence it is possible to call this method as often as desired without spoiling the analysis. AnalysisHandler::post() This method calls the Analysis::post() for each analysis loaded by the handler. It is also possible to only read YODA files without having a generator run. In this case AnalysisHandler::post() can be called after the read-in of YODA files: Analysis::init() will be called, the analysis objects are booked and Analysis::analyze( const Event& event ) and Analysis::finalize() are skipped. After that, the objects are replaced by those found in the loaded YODA files and finally, Analysis::post() is called for each analysis and the read objects are processed. There are still open questions and issues. Three of the more important ones might be: - Although it is in principle already possible to merge YODA files, it is desirable to provide a general way of implementing more complex merging procedures in order to account for complex finalize() methods. - In the future a standardized way of how to incorporate and handle centrality and other heavy-ion specific information must be provided. This might turn out to be mostly a HepMC issue. - Another important aspect of heavy-ion analyses are scenarios where certain fits should be applied to finalized histograms, for instance to determine peak widths. To be able to perform such a fit, external packages are required in addition to the standard headers used in the analysis class. Hence, there might be the need of a general and standardized way of including external packages and other (C++) libraries which is not limited to fitting. Note, that I also tidied up the gitlab repository ( <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://gitlab.cern.ch/bvolkel/rivet-for-heavy-ion/tree/master">https://gitlab.cern.ch/bvolkel/rivet-for-heavy-ion/tree/master </a>) such that you can now easily get the differences between the original code and the small extensions I added. I'm looking forward to getting your feedback and it would be very helpful if you could tell me whether the extensions are reasonable so far. Many thanks again, cheers, Benedikt <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 15.08.2016 16:06, Benedikt Volkel wrote: </div> <blockquote cite="mid:94d9b889-5abf-e887-886c-b470549c04c7@cern.ch" type="cite">Hej Leif, hej Andy, so far I have two approaches to take centrality into account using JEWEL. Since there is no place designated for centrality in the heavy-ion block of HepMC, JEWEL uses the place designated for the impact parameter and prints the centrality there. In the first approach, I run JEWEL over the full centrality region. If there are centrality dependent histograms, I decide during the analysis which one should be filled by evaluating the HepMC heavy-ion block 'H', checking the impact parameter and therefore the centrality in this special case. In a second approach one might only need a certain centrality region in an analysis. I have modified mcplots slightly and it can account for that by initializing JEWEL with the desired region. Basically, the first approach is fully contained in the second one. In any case, I check the centrality within the Rivet analysis. This could be crucial because by accident one could run an MC in a different centrality region than it is assumed by the analysis. Not checking the centrality could therefore screw up the entire analysis. To account for that I do basically const float centr = event.genEvent()->heavy_ion()->impact_parameter(); in the Rivet analysis. If there would be a standardized way of printing the centrality to the HepMC output, both ways described above can be used in general and not just in the case of JEWEL. I hope, this answers especially Leif's question. What do you think? Cheers, Benedikt On 15.08.2016 10:39, Andy Buckley wrote: <blockquote type="cite">It may be what you were going to suggest/advertise, Leif, but in HepMC3 "custom attributes" can be attached to event objects, meaning that generators have a place to store centrality information unlike in HepMC2. This may be a good motivator for HI experiment and theory to use HepMC3 -- at least that was the intention! And I'd be happy to extend Rivet to handle this info, once we have some feedback on what would be useful. Andy On 15/08/16 08:32, Leif L�nnblad wrote: <blockquote type="cite">Hi Benedict, I was also planning to do some Heavy Ion developments for rivet, and I'm very interested in your suggestions. I have not quite made up my mind about 1, 2, or 3 yet, but I agree with Andy that your option 3 may be combined with the planned facility for re-running finalize() on multiple yoda files. However, one thing that was not clear from your description is how to handle centrality, which is essential in any R_AA measurement. Do you have any ideas on that? Cheers, Leif On 2016-08-12 18:39, Benedikt Volkel wrote: <blockquote type="cite">Hej Andy, hej Frank, thanks for your replies! It is great that you are interested in a discussion. Basically, the proposed solution #2 would be a very easy solution because it is both fast and simple to implement and there is no need to extend Rivet. However, there are major drawbacks arising from further desired capabilities which affects also proper resource management such that #1 or #3 should be preferred over #2. Especially in the case of R_AA analysis it is interesting to combine the output of different AA generators with different pp generators. If only a direct read-in from HepMC files is possible, there are two ways of doing that. Firstly, one can save the entire HepMC files of single runs in order to pass the desired combinations to Rivet afterwards. This method requires a lot of disk space and deleting the files means a complete new MC run in case it is needed again. The other way is the one Frank suggested. In this approach the problem is the large amount of time because for every combination, two complete MC runs are required. To overcome the drawbacks it would be nice to be able to recycle generated YODA files and to put them together afterwards in any desired combination. This saves both computing power/time and disk space. More generally, the fact that #2 means not a full integration in Rivet leads to the question of how certain pre/post-processes are handled in a standardized manner and how the right ones are matched to certain analyses. It might be difficult to ensure that something like $ rivet -a EXPERIMENT_YEAR_INSPIRE fifo.hepmc still works. Consequently, there might be some actual paper-based analyses which cannot be handled by non-Rivet-experts. Finally, a solution according to #3 might be preferred over #2 and #1 because -> everything, including general post-processing steps, can be handled only by Rivet, -> resources are saved (in a more general way, not only regarding R_AA analyses), -> there are other scenarios like those Andy mentioned which could be also handled in this approach. What do you think about that? Again, we are glad about getting your feedback and additional ideas. Cheers, Benedikt On 11.08.2016 22:10, Andy Buckley wrote: <blockquote type="cite">Hi Benedikt, Thanks for getting in touch -- sounds like a productive project. Actually, version 3 sounds a lot like what we have had in mind for some time, as part of the development branch for handling events with complex generator weightings: we planned to be able to initialise Rivet analyses with pre-existing YODA files, populating the "temporary" data objects and re-running the finalize() function. We intended this mainly so that YODA files from homogeneous, statistically independent parallel runs could be merged into one mega-run, and then the finalize() steps re-run to guarantee that arbitrarily complicated end-of-run manipulations would be correctly computed. But it sounds like it would be similarly useful for you... Thanks for the pointer to your code. Can I ask how long you will be working on this project for? I look forward to the discussion and hopefully some of us will be able to meet in person at CERN, too... but if you would still be available at the end of September you would be very welcome (and we can pay) for you to attend our 3-day developer workshop. Cheers, Andy </blockquote> On 11.08.2016 09:41, Frank Siegert wrote: <blockquote type="cite">Dear Benedikt, thanks for your mail and for describing your problem and solutions very clearly. I want to throw into the discussion a 4th alternative, which is somewhat similar to your #2 but doesn't need any modifications of Rivet itself. I have used this approach with a Bachelor student when we were trying to determine non-perturbative corrections with iterative unfolding, i.e. we needed both hadronised and non-hadronised events in the analysis at the same time to fill the response matrix. Thus, for us it was important to preserve the correlation between hadronised and non-hadronised event, which for you is not an issue, so maybe this method is not necessary or more complicated for you, but I thought I'd mention it nonetheless. We are running a standalone pre-processor script which combines the HepMC files from the two generator runs, and by using appropriate particle status codes embeds the non-hadronised event into the hadronised one. We then wrote an analysis plugin including a custom projection, which can extract separately (based on the particle status) the non-hadronised event and the hadronised event from the same HepMC file. This allowed us not just to fill the two sets of histograms in the same run (and divide them in finalize), as you would want to do it, but also fill a response matrix with correlated events, which you probably don't care about. So basically all you would need is a pre-processing script to combine the HepMC files, which could possibly be included in your HI generator interface and thus not disrupt the workflow. But maybe this is too complicated, and given that you don't need the correlations you might be better off with your approach #1. Cheers, Frank </blockquote> <blockquote type="cite"> On 10/08/16 21:55, Benedikt Volkel wrote: <blockquote type="cite">Dear Rivet developers, my name is Benedikt Volkel and I'm working on a summer student project in ALICE with Jan Fiete Grosse-Oetringhaus and Jochen Klein. The goal is to extend the mcplots project to cover specific needs arising from heavy-ion analyses. In particular, we want to implement a post-processing step, which is frequently required for heavy-ion analyses. This step must take place after the production of certain analysis output, e.g. to combine results from different generator runs. As mcplots is based on the standard Rivet work flow, the questions do not apply just to mcplots but more general to Rivet. To sketch the problem in more detail and start a discussion on a possible implementation of a standardized post-processing step we use the example of an R_AA analysis as a starting point. The conceptual problem of an R_AA analysis is the combination, here a division, of heavy ion (AA) data and pp data. The two types of data are provided by different generator runs. We will always assume that Rivet can figure out whether it gets events from an AA generator or a pp generator. This differentiation could be done by evaluating the heavy ion block 'H' in a given HepMC file and/or by reading the beam types. We have investigated the following 3 approaches and would like to ask for comments and feedback: 1) External script: In this approach we don't modify the Rivet �� framework at all. The analysis is run independently for the two �� generators (pp and AA), in each case only one type of histograms �� is filled while the other stays empty. In the end, we use an �� external program/script to process the YODA output of both runs �� and perform the division. This can be done by using the YODA �� library and hence easily in Python or C++. �� Comments: So far there is no standard way to distribute or �� execute such a post-processing executable. A standard work flow �� to include a post-processing step would be desirable. A �� standardized hook to execute an arbitrary external script might �� provide more flexibility because those external scripts could be �� written in Python or C++ and could have an almost arbitrary level �� of complexity. 2) Specific executable, Rivet as library: In this case I wrote an �� executable which takes care of creating one instance of �� Rivet::AnalysisHandler and manages the read-in of two HepMC �� files. I based the code on the source code of the executable �� $MCPLOTS/scripts/mcprod/rivetvm/rivetvm.cc implemented in �� mcplots. My modifications are sketched in [1]. In this way, both �� data sets are available in the same analysis and the division can �� simply be done in the finalize step. �� Comments: It is also already possible on the commandline to pass �� two or more HepMC files to Rivet for sequential processing. 3) The goal of my last approach was to enable Rivet to produce �� reasonable analysis output without external dependences. �� Furthermore, it should be possible to have asynchronous �� production of pp and heavy ion YODA files independent from each �� other, bringing those together using only Rivet. Therefore, Rivet �� was modified to allow reading back the YODA output. This �� allows us to implement also the post-processing in the analysis �� class. �� Comments: You can find the code on <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://gitlab.cern.ch/bvolkel/rivet-for-heavy-ion/tree/working">https://gitlab.cern.ch/bvolkel/rivet-for-heavy-ion/tree/working</a>. �� The basic steps can be found in [2] and more comments can be �� found directly in the source code. �� For the R_AA analysis, Rivet can be first run with a pp generator. �� In the resulting YODA file only the pp objects are filled. In a �� second run, with the AA generator, Rivet can be started passing �� the first YODA file as additional input. In the Rivet analysis �� itself the heavy ion objects are filled. However, after �� finalize(), a method Analysis::replaceByData is called. The �� objects normally produced by the analysis are replaced by those �� from the provided YODA file if they have a finite number of �� entries. Hence, after the replacement there are filled and finalized �� pp objects coming from the first run and AA objects from the second �� run. Those can now be used in an newly introduced post() method �� which manages e.g. the division of histograms in case of the R_AA �� analysis. It is also possible to provide a YODA file where both �� the pp and the AA objects are filled and the R_AA objects have to �� be calculated. No actual analysis is done (0 events from an MC), but �� init(), analyze(...), finalize() and the post() method are called. The �� histograms are booked, nothing happens in analyze(..) and �� finalize(), the corresponding histograms are replaced after finalize() �� and post() handles the division. Basically, this is a similar approach as �� the one in scenario 1) but no external dependences are involved. Also, �� scenario 2) remains possible if the YODA input is avoided. All methods work and lead to the desired output. The first two do not need an extension of the Rivet source code. While first one allows for the largest amount of flexibility, the second one is the one which can be implemented most quickly and where all steps can be encapsulated in one analysis class in Rivet. However, always two MC generators runs are required at the same time. Finally, there is one thing all approaches have in common, though, namely the extension of the rivet executable and related ones, in order to account for these analyses types in the command line: 1) linking to the external post-processing script in a consistent way, 2) parallel processing of at least two HepMC files, 3) read-in of a YODA file. I hope that I could explain the issues in a reasonable manner. Jan, Jochen and me are looking forward to a fruitful discussion of how to implement analyses like the one mentioned above in a reasonable way. Please give us critical feedback concerning the approaches and let us know if there are more appropriate ways of solving our problems which I haven't accounted for yet. A consistent and straightforward way of implementing those analyses in Rivet would be extremely helpful. Best regards and many thanks, Benedikt ---------------------Appendix--------------------- [1] Sketch of the modification of $MCPLOTS/scripts/mcprod/rivetvm/rivetvm.cc --------------------------------- ... ifstream is1( file1 ); ifstream is2( file2 ); ... AnalysisHandler rivet; HepMC::evt1; HepMC::evt2; rivet.addAnalyses( RAA_analysis ); �� while( !is1 || !is2 ) { ... �� evt1.read(is1); �� evt2.read(is2); �� analyze(evt1); �� analyze(evt2); �� ... } ... --------------------------------- [2] Basics of the small extension of Rivet Rivet::Analysis: Introducing member: bool _haveReadData Introducing: void post() Introducing: void Analysis::replaceByData( std::map< std::string, AnalysisObjectPtr > readObjects ) Rivet::AnalysisHandler: Introducing members: std::map< std::string, AnalysisObjectPtr > _readObjects and bool _haveReadData Introducing: void AnalysisHandler::readData(const std::string& filename) _______________________________________________ Rivet mailing list <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Rivet@projects.hepforge.org">Rivet@projects.hepforge.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.hepforge.org/lists/listinfo/rivet">https://www.hepforge.org/lists/listinfo/rivet</a> </blockquote> </blockquote> _______________________________________________ Rivet mailing list <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Rivet@projects.hepforge.org">Rivet@projects.hepforge.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.hepforge.org/lists/listinfo/rivet">https://www.hepforge.org/lists/listinfo/rivet</a> </blockquote> _______________________________________________ Rivet mailing list <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Rivet@projects.hepforge.org">Rivet@projects.hepforge.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.hepforge.org/lists/listinfo/rivet">https://www.hepforge.org/lists/listinfo/rivet</a> </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote> </body> </html>